[Carl]

Hello, and welcome to the SaaS Growth Podcast. This week, we’re here with Brandon Lutz, the Head of Offline and New Media at Miro. Hey!

[Brandon]

I’m doing well, Carl. It’s a bit cold by me, but I imagine it’s also pretty cold by you over there.

[Carl]

Yeah, Finland’s a famously warm country in the winter, I know. Anyway, can you tell us a little about what’s happening at Miro and how you got involved in their offline advertising?

[Brandon]

Sure. Just for context, Miro is a B2B SaaS company. We call ourselves an innovation workspace, helping product development teams—engineers, product managers, designers, marketers, and IT—manage their workflows. From brainstorming and ideation to structuring product briefs, journey mapping, and task management, we aim to be a full-service tool in one space.

Before I joined, Miro's acquisition efforts were heavily digital—paid search, paid social, YouTube, and podcasts. My background is in top-of-funnel and offline advertising for B2B, so I was brought in to expand into broader channels in a more data-driven way. I’ve worked at companies like Indeed and Amazon, which gave me the experience to scale offline efforts globally.

Right now, at Miro, we’re scaling podcast advertising, experimenting with YouTube and Connected TV, and planning some out-of-home advertising campaigns. So it’s busy!

[Carl]

Sounds like it. I’m not an expert on advertising, especially offline. Why is offline advertising so important for Miro right now?

[Brandon]

There are a couple of reasons. First, let’s consider the B2B industry. Channels like paid search are very focused on the bottom of the funnel—they catch people who are already aware of their problem and actively searching for a solution. But what about everyone who doesn’t know your brand or that your solution exists?

Many B2B SaaS companies focus heavily on bottom-of-funnel tactics because they’re measurable, and leadership teams love seeing those direct results. But relying only on paid search becomes a problem as competition grows and costs rise. Eventually, the question becomes, “What are we doing to engage people before they get to paid search?” That’s where offline and top-of-funnel advertising come in.

[Carl]

That makes sense. Paid search catches people who are already problem-aware, but you’re missing out on those who haven’t started looking. How do you measure offline channels if they aren’t as straightforward to track?

[Brandon]

Good question. It’s not that offline channels can’t be measured—it’s that the approach is different.

For example, at Indeed, I scaled offline advertising for SMBs in Europe. We used causal impact analysis and geo-experimentation. Let’s say we wanted to test terrestrial radio in the U.S. We’d divide the country into regions. In some areas, we’d run the campaign, while others would act as a control group. Over six to ten weeks, we’d compare the performance—like conversion rates or brand lift—between regions with the campaign and those without.

By isolating the channel’s effect in this way, we can determine if it’s driving results.

[Carl]

Do experiments on other channels interfere with these results?

[Brandon]

That’s a real risk, so coordination is key. Before running any experiment, I meet with the other regional marketing heads to align on everyone’s plans for the quarter.

If two experiments overlap, we either stagger them or find opportunities to test multiple variables at once. For example, at Indeed, we tested terrestrial radio alongside brand TV in Germany. We created four groups: one with just radio, one with just TV, one with both, and a control with neither. That gave us richer insights without delaying our campaigns.

[Carl]

How do you decide which offline channels to experiment with?

[Brandon]

It starts with understanding your market and target audience. Different markets have different offline behaviors. For example, terrestrial radio is still huge in Germany, while podcast advertising is more mature in the U.S.

Audience segmentation is also critical. If I’m targeting product managers, I’d think twice before using billboards, which have a lot of waste. Instead, podcasts might make more sense because they skew toward higher education and income.

It’s always a balance between scale, waste, and market dynamics.

[Carl]

When should a SaaS company start investing in offline channels?

[Brandon]

Offline is the Everest of advertising—aspirational for many. Start by mastering your paid digital channels like search and social. These are measurable, fast, and closer to conversions.

When those channels plateau or your cost-per-acquisition rises, it’s time to explore other tactics. You don’t have to jump straight into big campaigns like TV. Start with smaller steps, like programmatic YouTube or podcast advertising, to test the waters.

[Carl]

What about brand awareness? How important is that in the sales and marketing process?

[Brandon]

It’s critical, especially for enterprise deals, which can take months or years. You want buyers to think of your brand when they encounter a problem your product solves.

Many B2B SaaS companies rely on content like blogs and white papers, but people don’t live on LinkedIn all day. They’re watching TV, listening to podcasts, or reading newspapers. Offline channels let you meet them in these spaces, increasing brand recall.

Getting your executives to speak at events or sponsor podcasts can also build credibility without being overly salesy.

[Carl]

It’s definitely less sexy to measure brand awareness ROI, but it’s valuable. You mentioned “category entry points”—can you explain that?

[Brandon]

Category entry points are mental shortcuts that link your brand to specific problems or moments. For Miro, we want people to think of us when they need to brainstorm or manage product timelines.

Unlike basic brand awareness, this metric shows whether your brand is associated with relevant contexts, which is crucial for influencing buyer decisions.

[Carl]

That’s fascinating. Any final thoughts for SaaS marketers considering offline advertising?

[Brandon]

Offline advertising isn’t a dirty word in SaaS. Start small—test programmatic ads, podcasts, or local campaigns. Understand your leadership’s risk tolerance and show them how offline can complement digital strategies.

It’s about building long-term brand equity while keeping a data-driven approach.

[Carl]

Thanks so much for coming on, Brandon. Where can people find you?

[Brandon]

You can find me on LinkedIn—just search for “Brandon Lutz” or “LutzBrandon.” I’m happy to chat!

[Carl]

Thanks again, Brandon. And for everyone else, we’ll see you next week.